![Podcast microphone against a blank background](/sites/g/files/omnuum10826/files/styles/hwp_21_9__1920x825/public/datasmart/files/podcast_microphone.jpg?itok=3Q9qYvou) # The Year in Review: Stephen Goldsmith Reflects on 2024 Episode Sixty-Eight January 08, 2025 [ Betsy Gardner ](/betsy-gardner) It's the start-of-the-new-year episode, where host Stephen Goldsmith and producer Betsy Gardner swap roles to discuss all things data, digital, governance, AI and policy-making from 2024. Listen to Pr. Goldsmith's reflections on the last twelve months and predictions on 2025, with a bonus lightening round of questions! References include Data-Smart City Pod [Episode 67](/redefining-city-governance-generative-ai), [Episode 65](/empowering-city-leaders-address-childrens-environmental-vulnerabilities), and [Episode 62](/invisible-impact-heat-and-childrens-health), and articles about [Tacoma](/equity-practice-not-product), [Tucson](/harnessing-data-visualization-unify-departments-equity-initiatives), and [Nashville](/how-nashville-learned-share-data-across-agencies). Embed *Listen here, or wherever you get your podcasts. The following is a transcript of their conversation.* **Stephen Goldsmith:** Welcome back. This is Steven Goldsmith, professor at the Harvard Kennedy School and director of Data-Smart City Solutions at Bloomberg Center for Cities here at Harvard. And for this first episode of 2025, I'm being interrogated by our senior editor, Betsy Gardner, who usually is the person behind the scenes is I ask the questions, but we're going to switch roles as we do once a year. So Betsy, thanks for joining me. **Betsy Gardner:** Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be on the podcast even though I'm usually behind the screen. I'm going to jump right in with a question for you. What were the most promising advancements in data-driven governance that you observed in 2024? **Stephen Goldsmith:** I have a specific answer and a general answer. Let me start with a general answer. I think the conversion of analog government to digital government broadly has accelerated, and by that I mean it's now unusual for a city not to be doing most of its work digitally. It's now unusual in part as a result of What Works Cities and the Bloomberg Philanthropies initiatives, but it's very unusual for a city not to have some substantial emphasis on the use of data to evaluate how they operate and how they make policies. So I find that all very rewarding, especially as more and more individuals in a city use data to make decisions specifically. And accelerating that is AI and generative AI and the capacity of AI/generative AI will further accelerate the digital transformation I mentioned too in the general way. So I think it's a very promising year with respect to the impact of technology on governance. **Betsy Gardner:** Yes, I think that's been a huge focus for us, of course, here and everyone just sort of generally, but where do you see that trend going? Do you see there being any kind of change or adaptation in the use of gen AI or regular AI in 2025? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Well, one way to think about this is that AI and data, depending on which word you want to use, has either been just for the cool kids or just for the wonks, right? It hasn't been for normal people. And so, the utilization of generative AI provides the potential for many more individuals who work for a city or who work for community groups to understand the data and ask questions of it. So, we've seen, for example, in Boston, Santi Garces, we've seen just some pretty straightforward applications of generative AI in the world of 311 call center requests. You and I were in San Jose last year for their coalition work and what were there, 7-800 people there talking about the applications of generative AI. So I think there's a lot of interesting activity that will eventually make a big difference. **Betsy Gardner:** As our editor, I also have to plug that you and Santi Garces did a podcast at the end of last year that everybody who's listening to this one should go and take a listen to because you really get more into that with him on that episode. In addition to all of the work that we've done looking at GenAI in governance, it's obviously been a huge piece of our work, but there are a lot of other projects that we're doing and that cities are working on. So, do you want to talk a little bit about what we did in the last year apart from some of the generative AI conversations and where we're going this year? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Well, there's a lot of talk and a fair amount of fixation on bright shiny objects, and I'm affected by that as well, but there's also some concentration on the basics. So I am very excited about work we're doing with a number of large cities on how performance management, often called stat programs by cities will be changed, improved, expanded as a result of utilizing these tools so that more individuals in a city can use the data to challenge and examine the way they operate to engage with communities. So I think a good way to start is: let's look at what services are most important to residents, how the residents grade those services, and then use the data to figure out how we respond to our communities better. **Betsy Gardner:** That's very encouraging, and I think that ties nicely into the work that we've done through the Community Data Health Initiative, which if you want to talk a little bit about that and about where we're going this year and the next, looking at that kind of overlay of the data of what services are being provided, but then also what issues are present, what communities are being most affected by aspects of climate change, like extreme heat, air pollution. Do you want to give our audience a little bit about the work that we have done on that project and then the work that we're doing? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Well, it's an interesting question, and it provides an interesting example, right? So the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation funding to Bloomberg Center for Cities, to the Environmental Defense Fund, to the African American Mayors Association and to Meharry Medical School all relates, we're all working together to the question of ‘how do you use data to directly improve the lives of people who live in your communities,’ right? So in that situation, we're not talking about global climate influence, we're talking about hyperlocal. How does the quality of your air and the temperature on your streets, the lead in your water, how does that affect the futures of individuals who live in your community? So, we're working with the data teams and the environmental/climate teams in four or five cities to focus on what can a city do to reduce PM 2.5, to reduce carbon, to reduce lead, to reduce the temperature in heat islands so that individuals in under-resourced communities have better opportunities. In particular so that young adults and babies have opportunities for the future as well. Very exciting project that shows how promising highly precise data can be in the change of policies and operations. **Betsy Gardner:** Absolutely. And I have to plug again that we have some really great previous podcast episodes with experts, especially talking about that effect on pregnant people, babies, young children, with the extreme heat. But going back to something that you said about that engagement, I think this has been a big topic of conversation this past year, and previous years, about how public trust has changed. And so picking up that thread of community engagement, how can data-driven decision-making help improve public trust in local government and local institutions? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Well, so trust is generated when an individual in a city has needs from their city and those needs are fulfilled. ‘Do my streets work? Is my water clean? Am I safe? Do I have economic opportunity?’ And so, if we more precisely measure what folks need in their communities, and if we more effectively deliver the services, that creates a willingness on the part of that resident to engage. And when that person engages and the city does what it's asked to do, that will then create this kind of virtuous cycle of trust. And so we can now, whether we use sentiment analysis or other AI tools, there is a better ability. Many cities across the country are measuring, doing polling work, and they're measuring sentiment to see what residents think in a specific geography in their city about a certain service, and then they're using that to inform their performance. So I think there's a huge amount of opportunity here as we examine the connection between data, trust and the quality of public services. **Betsy Gardner:** Are there any cities that you want to call out or highlight that we talked about last year that you think are doing a really good job or are kind of leading the way or getting creative in the way that they're using data and technology to address these local challenges? **Stephen Goldsmith:** A lot of cities, I mean, Boston is a leader in many ways. We talked about Santi earlier. We have some pretty interesting uses of data to drive more equity in the delivery of city services; Tacoma has a digital approach to tackling equity. We wrote about Tucson as well, that frames its actions with an equity index slightly differently, but equally interesting. The ability to think spatially across the enterprise, so we wrote about how Nashville is sharing data across agencies and pushing out the data across the enterprise. So what are enterprise tools that are widely utilized? Those are exciting as well. And then we've got cities like San Jose, San Diego, New York City, who are much more comprehensively measuring what their residents think about city services and then injecting that into performance as we just talked. **Betsy Gardner:** So, based on all of this, what advice do you have for city officials, the city officials in our audience, for this year? What should they be thinking about in 2025? What should they be taking from some of these other cities that we've talked about? What are your thoughts for them? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Well, if you talk to any of the best mayors in the US, they all say they steal ideas from their peers. So, there's a huge amount of really cool work going on, and people should just copy it – apply it, customize it, but copy it, steal it. That'd be one answer. Second would be to dramatically increase data literacy by training more people who work in the city, teaching them basic skills. They don't have to all be data geeks, but just how to use the data that's available. That would be another thing to do. And then I think if you watch some of the things we've even talked about, there are lots of interesting applications. And one thing that we see, whether you're using GIS or you're doing work on the stat programs, is the transferability of the solutions is really pretty easy, right? Somebody else has figured out what data sets to use, what algorithms to write or whatever the case may be. Copying those innovations is relatively easy. So I'd encourage people to do more internally and steal more things externally. **Betsy Gardner:** All right. We're going to go into a lightning round now. So I'm going to ask you some rapid fire questions and I want the first thing that comes to, okay. **Stephen Goldsmith:** Okay. **Betsy Gardner:** Alright. What was something that you really enjoyed learning about last year? **Stephen Goldsmith:** I had a great time learning and watching and experiencing the power of bots and agents with both internal Harvard data and with stat data. I think the ability to get smarter by interacting with a bot was really quite exciting. **Betsy Gardner:** That was a pretty exciting development that we got to see. If you could summarize the last year in one word or phrase, what would it be? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Tumultuous. **Betsy Gardner:** Co-sign. What is something that surprised you last year, pleasantly surprised you last year? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Oh, pleasantly surprised me last year. Well, I'm pleasantly surprised that we bring cities together from all over the country and all over the world in a highly polarized time in the world. And yet the consensus and commitment and professionalism of the folks we bring together overwhelms political differences. So I'm pleasantly surprised by the continuing commitment of local professionals despite the difficult environments in which they work. **Betsy Gardner:** What is one piece of advice that you have for someone who's just starting out in a public service career? **Stephen Goldsmith:** It's the best job in the world, the ability to serve other folks. And while you have to keep your eye on what the public value is you're trying to create, remember that the job is an opportunity to do good for others and stay focused. **Betsy Gardner:** So is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners as we're kicking off 2025? **Stephen Goldsmith:** Absolutely. They should look at what you're posting on Data-Smart City Solutions. They should keep up on material that comes out of the various Bloomberg Philanthropies organizations. Whether it's Harvard or others, there's a huge amount of interesting information so take advantage of it. We'll keep putting it out there and hope you come look at it. **Betsy Gardner:** I could not have said that better myself. **Stephen Goldsmith:** So, thanks for the opportunity. The questions were fun, and many thanks to the listeners that have put up with us throughout the year, and we look forward to another great informative year. **Betsy Gardner:** Thank you. ## About the Author ### Betsy Gardner ![Headshot of Betsy Gardner](/sites/g/files/omnuum10826/files/styles/hwp_1_1__100x100_scale/public/2025-05/Betsy%20Headshot%20resize.jpg?itok=k2OsSp1g) Betsy Gardner is the editor of Data-Smart City Solutions and the producer of the Data-Smart City Pod. Prior to this, Betsy worked in a variety of roles in higher education, focusing on deconstructing racial and gender inequality through research, writing, and facilitation. She also researched government spending and transparency at the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy. Betsy holds a master’s degree in Urban and Regional Policy from Northeastern University, a bachelor’s degree in Art History from Boston University, and a graduate certificate in Digital Storytelling from the Harvard Extension School. See also:- [ Civic Data ](/topics/civic-data) Share on:- [ Facebook ](#) - [ Twitter ](#) - [ Linkedin ](#)